E-3 vs Entry Level FF

[mfahrur]

Let's check out the size... with the standard 50mm lens!

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/OlympusE3/images/allroundview-001.jpg http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/nikond700/images/allroundview-001.jpg http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5D/Images/allroundview-001.jpg


Hmmmm... on second thoughts!

[shengliang1981]

wah.. full frame and four thirds almost the same size... another good reason to jump ship.. who jump first? :mario1:

[sam_la2]

This refute the statement Olympus is small.. but lens is?

[drsec]

wah.. full frame and four thirds almost the same size... another good reason to jump ship.. who jump first? :mario1:

You mexican mario ah?

[sammuel_chan]

the nikons are too expensive ler

[unpro]

olympus is also full-frame.. in a way.

[CompMac]

99% of the time I shoot full-frame, even with P&S. Why? I don't crop. :rofl:

[sammuel_chan]

why need to crop when you compo was nice?

[shengliang1981]

You mexican mario ah?

:confused: kenapa mexican pulak?

[shengliang1981]

olympus is also full-frame.. in a way.

sorry, should say 35mm full-frame instead...

[red]

i still don't feel the need for FF. i rather vouch for lightweight equipment.

[sammuel_chan]

I don't think full-frame was cost effective.

[unpro]

sorry, should say 35mm full-frame instead...

olympus/fourthirds is full-frame in the sense of lenses are specifically designed for the sensor/format/imaging circle. there's no waste of glass like using FX lenses for DX format. if 35mm is full-frame then what about MF or LF?

Just a quick comparison of a pro system covering 14-200mm equivalent. Purely weight comparison.

E-3 : 810g
HLD-4 : 315g
7-14mm : 780g
14-35mm : 900g
35-100mm : 1650g (excluding tripod collar)
Total : 4455g

D700 : 995g
MB-D10 : 290g
14-24mm : 1000g
24-70mm : 900g
70-200mm : 1470g
Total : 4655g

D3 : 1240g
14-24mm : 1000g
24-70mm : 900g
70-200mm : 1470g
Total : 4610g

E-system wins by about 200g. yayyy.. :D.. and its F/2 ('cept for the 7-14mm, while all nikkors are f/2.8). I wonder if that 200g difference is noticable.

[mfahrur]

the whole idea of the E-3 concept is to show that Oly has a pro caliber machine.. and for pros, weight is not a major issue.. only image.. again, it's a no winner.. at low light, at least...

a tweener body with some combi of pro-grade lenses is more desired, though...

[hellfire8888]

FF is the king...even d300 look so puny now...

[mfahrur]

E-3 with 12-60mm f2.8-4 and 50-200mm f2.8-3.5
Total Weight = 810g + 575g + 995g = 2.38kg
Total Price = RM5.5k + Rm3.2k + RM3.9k = RM12.6k

D700 with 24-85mm f3.5-4.5 and 80-400mm f4.5-5.6
Total Weigth = 995g + 415g + 1350g = 2.76kg
Total Price = Rm10.5k + Rm1.7k + Rm6.3k = Rm18.5k

Both focal lengths cover similar FoV and similar DoF effect!!! The Nikon will have slightly more shallow DoF, but not significant.

Weight difference, about 380g... not significant, but it's heavier than the ZD50mm f2.

Price difference? Wow!... RM6k difference is like having a 7-14mm lens!!


:willy_nilly:

[hellfire8888]

E-3 with 12-60mm f2.8-4 and 50-200mm f2.8-3.5
Total Weight = 810g + 575g + 995g = 2.38kg
Total Price = RM5.5k + Rm3.2k + RM3.9k = RM12.6k

D700 with 24-85mm f3.5-4.5 and 80-400mm f4.5-5.6
Total Weigth = 995g + 415g + 1350g = 2.76kg
Total Price = Rm10.5k + Rm1.7k + Rm6.3k = Rm18.5k

Both focal lengths cover similar FoV and similar DoF effect!!! The Nikon will have slightly more shallow DoF, but not significant.

Weight difference, about 380g... not significant, but it's heavier than the ZD50mm f2.

Price difference? Wow!... RM6k difference is like having a 7-14mm lens!!


:willy_nilly:


but if price for FF drop to the level of equivalent of a E-3 leh? how...by then will it be the end of 4/3

[feicipet]

but if price for FF drop to the level of equivalent of a E-3 leh? how...by then will it be the end of 4/3

you're assuming that Oly will be sitting around just twiddling their thumbs while all of this is happening over at the Nikon camp...

[Luq]

olympus/fourthirds is full-frame in the sense of lenses are specifically designed for the sensor/format/imaging circle. there's no waste of glass like using FX lenses for DX format. if 35mm is full-frame then what about MF or LF?

I think people are getting caught up in semantics.

It has always been that the larger the negative, the finer the resolution. Now its larger sensor, better resolution.

Olympus can state that its sensors are full-frame, but the laws of physics (based on my rudimentary understanding) seem to favour sensors that are larger, which is why there are still digital-backs being developed for Hasselblads and such, which yield significantly better quality than any existing 35mm-based DSLR (if memory serves me right - remember the comparison between the 1DSmk2 and a 24mp digital back a few years back?)

Larger lenses also has less limitations in its design. Larger sensors allow for less heat (I was incredibly surprised that my OLy has a temp warning icon for the sensor!) equating to less noise esp during longer exposure, and better pixel pitch resulting in smoother tones overall. Imagine my surprise when I took a shot in tungsten light last night at ISO200 and I saw noise in the shadows at 1/5 shutter speed. At ISO200!

Perhaps this is why digital compact cameras produce noise even at ISO400, and some even at ISO200.

Also since you cited them, the MF and LF lenses themselves are different from the 35mm lenses. Our 50mm equivalent for a MF is around 80mm, for example. There is a reason why Olympus and all the EFS and DX lenses are still using the 35mm conventions as terms of reference.

As one forummer here mentioned, 'once Oly solves their noise problem' . . . will they? On the assumption that DPreview is honest and unbiased, the E420 and E520 tests have already shown that there is possibly a stronger AA filter on the sensors to 'combat' the noise problem, in comparison to the E410 and E510 respectively. While FF cameras are allowing low-noise, smooth toned images through natural laws of physics, the smaller sensors are seeing more and more processing and algorithm in the Digic-Bionz-Venus-XXX 'engines'.

Please don't marah the new guy - just my humble 2 sen. :) Besides, I own an Oly now, don't I? :rules:

[CompMac]

We won't marah people one, maybe the occasional sarcastic comments. :D

[hellfire8888]

i was tempted by the better of IQ offered from a FF but these factors become a drawback:-

1. Size of tele lens if i want to have the same focal lenght i am having now.
2. not sure their lens are all weather seal..and yes i might not shoot under rain but i still want weather seal
3. price to pay for maintenance as i hear horrid story on dust ..i do not want o pay visit to SC every few months to clean my slr.
4. the price .
5. i see posting on the web on 5D with banding and it still lead me to think that FF is not perfect and might not give me the ultimate IQ but this is my perception due to various posting on the web

well as technology improves the noise issue shall be overcome. afterall mankind do made it to the moon right.

[mfahrur]

but then again, the FFT-CCD 50MP Kodak sensor doesn't really impressed me. compared against the FFT-CCD 5MP E-1 sensor, both have the same pixel density of 6.8, and stops at ISO400. the 50MP have 1 stop more DR, but have half of the refresh/cycle rate. both have similar noise current value, etc.

but one thing i can guarantee, both the Kodak deliver where other manufacturers fail: exquisite skintones.

i think the issue is pixel density. that's the bottomline. E-3 is at 4 levels.

AA filter or whatever, i don't know much about that. if it's good enuff for Getty Images, what dpreview say don't matter.

:)

[Cicak]

but then again, the FFT-CCD 50MP Kodak sensor doesn't really impressed me. compared against the FFT-CCD 5MP E-1 sensor, both have the same pixel density of 6.8, and stops at ISO400. the 50MP have 1 stop more DR, but have half of the refresh/cycle rate. both have similar noise current value, etc.

but one thing i can guarantee, both the Kodak deliver where other manufacturers fail: exquisite skintones.

i think the issue is pixel density. that's the bottomline. E-3 is at 4 levels.

AA filter or whatever, i don't know much about that. if it's good enuff for Getty Images, what dpreview say don't matter.

:)

Mfahrur, the new 50MP is not using the 6.8 micron platform as previous release...the new one uses 6.0 micron.... well just a thought

[Luq]

but then again, the FFT-CCD 50MP Kodak sensor doesn't really impressed me. compared against the FFT-CCD 5MP E-1 sensor
:)

Curious to know where you've seen the pics from the newly announced 50mp Kodak sensor?

Mind giving me the URL so that I may be able to compare for myself?

TQ.

[mfahrur]

Curious to know where you've seen the pics from the newly announced 50mp Kodak sensor?

Mind giving me the URL so that I may be able to compare for myself?

TQ.

so far, only the engineering spec sheet, and it's so similar with E-1 kodak chip....

i am talking about the sensor capability, but comparing 50MP with 5MP in terms of resolution is rather moot...

if the capabilities are transfered to 4/3, i don't expect to see much progress from kodak, actually.. and that's what really matters... :(

[Luq]

I don't think concluding on sensor capability by just looking at spec sheets is a good idea.

Additionally, I wasn't comparing 50mp with 5mp. I was instead talking about advantages of a larger sensor (regardless of mp).

Curious - are Olympus sensors made by Kodak? (based on your last sentence).

[CompMac]

Curious - are Olympus sensors made by Kodak? (based on your last sentence).

Kodak is (was?) part of the 4/3 consor***m. The E-System cameras used to be fitted with Kodak sensor such as E-1, E-300, E-330 and E-500.

Nowadays, the sensor is made by Panasonic (NMOS).

[Cicak]

Curious to know where you've seen the pics from the newly announced 50mp Kodak sensor?

Mind giving me the URL so that I may be able to compare for myself?

TQ.

Well i dont know where are the picture but keep an eye on the just annouced Hasselblad H3DII-50.... anyone seen pictures?

[Luq]

Well i dont know where are the picture but keep an eye on the just annouced Hasselblad H3DII-50.... anyone seen pictures?

Yup, seen pictures of the Hasselblad! :P

Seriously though, I've been looking too, as it uses that new 50mp Kodak sensor that mfahrur mentioned.

[Cicak]

Yup, seen pictures of the Hasselblad! :P

Seriously though, I've been looking too, as it uses that new 50mp Kodak sensor that mfahrur mentioned.

Pictures taken with the old 31MP Hasselblad or new 50MP one?....link pls

[Luq]

No, I was saying I've seen pics of the Hasselblad cam, not the pics taken by the cam.

[nikkorku]

Let's check out the size... with the standard 50mm lens!


Hmmmm... on second thoughts!


IMO, E-3 is exception thing from 4/3 league regarding the size matter.
This is one reason I sold this nice camera since the fps power also not too fast comparing to competition such D300 or even EOS 1D3.

Hopefully the successor model of pro body such E-3 will be loaded with more features such found on higher end body of Canon/Nikon but in smaller size body.